General Posts #251

"donaldbyers":
Ok lots of questions here:

The question marks mean we don't know the aircraft flown on that mission.

We don't make assumptions in trying to identify an aircraft which may have flown on the same mission. Your grandfather could have flown on another aircraft on that mission. I will see if I can locate him on that mission.

Although we do have some records of what the crews flew on a paticular mission there are also a lot that don't show what aircraft was flown and we are trying to obtain additional records and try and fill in some of these gaps.

Some aircraft had Nicknames and some didn't or were not registered.

Don

"win-win":
Hi Derrick:
Your questions here seem to revolve around what (Mission/Aircraft) information came from where, and which is most accurate (re: your G'Father).

1. You probably already know the 401st Web-pages ('Combat Crews', 'Aircraft' and 'Missions') contain 'official' information, developed from post-war microfilm of 401st records. It's 'Static' in that post-Mission additions and corrections were not in that microfilm, so our Mission pages (like #131 Yvoir) are incomplete - not all Crews and Aircraft for the Squadrons are listed. Lots of our Missions pages are similarly incomplete - It's what we have so-far.

2. However, we know original 401st Mission Reports are in the NARA (National Archives and Records Administration). But we also know some are missing and some don't include the post-Mission info (we need to upgrade our Website 401st History - Keeping it 'official').

3. As examples, look at the 613Sq. Lt. A.J. Nelson Crew Missions:
- - Note (their) Missions #121 Strasburg and #131 Yvoir Crew and Aircraft lists are incomplete - These have no NARA update info (because in this case, these Mission Reports are missing from the NARA);
- - Then look at Lt. Nelson's other Missions - They all have complete Crew and Aircraft lists, for all Squadrons - These have NARA update info, and are now probably the best 'official' info we'll have; and
- - Note also that Lt.Nelson flew many different Aircraft. It's doubtful any Crew at that time had a plane to call 'their own', more-so as the original 401st Crews and their Aircraft 'changed' (from loss, Crew changes, damage, re-assignment, etc).

4. So for the most accurate info about your G'father's Missions/Aircraft, the NARA has the best 'official' info. Not cheap, but the 'best'. When (if) you ask them, keep in-mind that Mission Reports may be up to 70-some pages each, but the 'key' pages are the 'Loading Lists' and 'over-target Formation Diagrams'. There's probably a way to E-mail an inquiry on their Website http://www.nara.gov, but I don't know what it is. But for 'snail-mail', its:
Textual Archives Services Division
National Archives and Records Administration
8601 Adelphi Rd.
College park, Md. 20740-6001

Good hunting,

"win-win":
Hi Derrick:

I'm still off-topic here (nick-names), but your question
..."I guess what I am asking is...was it incomplete from teh BEGINNING (ie 1944)?"...
goes to the heart of it:

No, it probably wasn't incomplete in 1944, but what got put onto microfilm was.

Even AFHRA cautions potential microfilm purchasers that not only was the post-War microfilming 'rushed' (and lots of poor images), but what got filmed (or not) wasn't organized to ensure 'completeness' or 'correctness'.

And even the NARA hasn't catalogued all the stuff they have. (Example: In 1998, I was there, and they still had hundreds of WWII aerial photo rolls 'in cans', and they had a guy doing the cataloging, full-time).

So it's still a 'Sherlock Holmes' job: Where's all that (1944) stuff now (if it exists at all), and how do we access (it to update our stuff).

One item I found about my Uncle's 'Nelson' Crew's 1st Mission (that made it all worth-while) was that the Co-Pilot was 'swapped' with another Crew (so both the new 'Nelson' Pilot and Co-Pilot had an experienced 401st 'driver' in the other 'chair') for that first Mission.

I also learned (from seeing original Mission Reports) that there were several (separately typed) verions (...no Xeroxing or 'copy-paste' then) of:
- - 'Loading Lists' - some had Aircraft assigned, some not, and others had penciled-over-marked changes; and
- - 'Formation Diagrams' - some marked 'take-off'; some marked 'cruise', but the ones that matter most are those marked 'over Target'.

So, keep on asking - it's how we get there from here, and
keep on truckin'

Win

The 384BG records for 42-97824 have her flying combat operations with them up to the 25th April 1945.
She was transferred to the 401st on 25th May 1945, then to the 9AF. Salvaged in Germany 10th December 1945.

The 30th December 1944 Accident Report refers to a taxying accident at Grafton Underwood, the 384BG's home base.

"Dog Breath":

"donaldbyers":
There is no known nickname for this aircraft nor a picture I am aware of.

Don

"donaldbyers":
could this be the 2nd name on Ice Cold Katy?

"Paul Bellamy":
Well, here's some screen grabs of the wall art layout in the virtual Combat Mess, to give a better idea of how they were laid out.
I've coloured each panel colour-coded by squadron allocation for quick identification, the panel with the squadron badge is filled the respective colour:

615th panels in orange, south wall.