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Mike DeVillires
12/20/2004 11:06:46 AM | I am building a 1/48 scale replica of "Belle of the Barbary Coast" 42-37981. She was an older olive drab ship (B-17G-15-DL) that was lost July 7th, 1944 over Leipzig.
According to Merle Warner, who was one of the waist gunners, there was no tail stripe and ALL of the markings were black, including the serial number on the tail.
Was this common on the older birds of the 401st? I always thought an olive drab B-17 G had yellow numbers on the tail.
I've been having a hard time finding a reference photo of a plane like this, (I've seen planes with white squadron markings instead) but I'm assuming that the markings on the tail would have the black triangle in the same place, just without the yellow stripe, and with the last letter of the squadron code below the serial number.
Does anyone know if this is correct?
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L.A.Mitchell
12/20/2004 9:00:54 PM | Olive drab airplanes had White Triangle and a Black letter "S" on the tail.
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Christopher Spear
12/21/2004 2:51:24 AM | Mike, it's my understanding the diagonal stripe was not added till late summer 44. of course, it's poss that the belle did have one in July. I have not heard of the serial numbers on the tail being anything other than yellow on an olive drab plane. You are correct in that the individual a/c letter would appear below the serial number on the tail.
hope this helps
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Mike DeVillires
12/21/2004 8:34:59 AM | I've seen the photos with the white triangle and squadron codes, but my source insists that their plane had no tail stripe (which makes sense) and that all of the markings were black.
The only other place I've seen 401st planes with black markings over olive drab is in photos of the Deenthorpe diorama at the Mighty Eighth Air Force Heritage Center in Savannah GA. I can only assume that the builders had some kind of reference for the planes represented in the display.
I think my replica would look better with black markings, but I'm trying to make it as accurate as possible.
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Mike DeVillires
12/22/2004 9:25:41 AM | I was looking at the crew photo I have and sure enough, you can barely see the black triangle in the fuzy background.
I also got confirmation from a second source (Paul Campbell) that some of the early olive drab forts did indeed have all black markings.
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Win Bryson
12/28/2004 2:10:04 PM | Mike: I'm surprised by the 'black markings' on some B-17s. I have a Nat'l. Archives' photo (#65611A.C., "Keep 'Em Flying") that shows a close-up of the tail of one of the original 401BG 'camo' a/c, "IN-C", 'Son of a Blitz'. It shows: white triangle; black "S"; and yellow 'Serial no'. & 'Squadron ID'. (It's a black and white photo, but I can E-mail the photo & close-up if it'd help.)
Win
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Mike DeVillires
12/29/2004 1:36:25 PM | Win,
I'm a bit surprised myself. I've seen quite a few photos with the white triangle. If it wasn't for the crew photo, I probably would question it more. In it, you can't see the squadron code, but you can see the black triangle on the tail as well as the camo paint on the wings and engine nacelles.
I'm about halfway done with my model replica of the Belle of the Barbary Coast. I decided to go with the black markings although I did the serial number in yellow. I'm pretty happy with the way it's turning out so far.
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Sean McDonald
1/20/2005 8:11:49 PM | Mike,
read this thread with interest, I too am about to begin building a 1/48 B17 with my 8 year old. It will be the 42-39820 ALSO RAN-STILL RUNNING which my great uncle john Daly served as bombardier in. When you get a chance-if possible-could I get your paint list and supplier info? I ordered the kit thru Squadron mail order and have been hitting the books, am unsure of the brand of OD color shade/camo scheme to use. This acft was one of the "originals" when the squadron was formed. Thanks!
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Win Bryson
1/21/2005 2:53:48 PM | Now that you've got this 'thread' going, I was 'paying attention' when the History Channel ran a B-17 program recently, a lot of it in color. I noticed several aircraft (none 401BG that I saw) had the black triangles with white letters. These were all 'camo' colored planes.
Shows to go you...
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Bob Rapp
1/24/2006 1:20:20 PM | Acoording to Freeman's book "The Mighty Eighth" the 401st squadron markings added the yellow diagonal band on the tail from August 1944 onwards. The diagonal slash was outlined in black on aircraft in neutral metal color. Before August 1944 the tail had just the white "S" in the black triangle.
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