General Posts #176

{s:TopicNav|Have NEW info on my Grandpa, have ?, Mary Alice|ForumNew.T1369|ForumNew.T0778|ForumNew.T0752|ForumNew.F01|ForumNew.T0749|ForumNew.T0733|ForumNew.T0005} 
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| '''MaryAlice''' <br/><br/><div class='poster-info'><img src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/NoAvatar.gif' /></div><br/>3/17/2011 9:44:02 AM 
| OK guys, I FINALLY got to take a peek into my Grandpa's "War box" (his box where he keeps all of his stuff from the War) I went to my Grandma's yesterday, and spent some time down there. In short, I was WAY unprepared, as I had NO idea he had that much stuff!<br/> <br/> It appears he brought home and saved a complete folder from time he was in service. I came across his admission form, dental records, training papers, transfer papers, releae papers, physical, life insurance papers, unemployment compensation papers, and, yes, his flight book (2 of them actually, one that was printed out, and done from assuming, the Air Force, and the other, in his hand writing)<br/> <br/> <br/> OK, the one that was PRINTED out, was like a chart, but no, didnt get pictures, as I didnt think to take camera, but will next time, because I need/want you guys to see this. In fact, Im gonna TRY and see if I can take the paper work and get it ALL copied for you guys to see, as I think its pretty cool, because in his paper work, he has some forms that list teh "groups" that guys were placed in or something. Anyways, there is WAY to much info for me to remember (again, there is NO way, my Grandma is gonna let me take it home, so gonna need to have it copied).<br/> <br/> OK, so on this chart, that was printed, it listed EVERY SINGLE time he went up...it gives a date, and it gives elapsed time in hours, and altitude at which they flew at.<br/> So, we KNOW that my Grandpa flew 31 missions (even the paperwork in HIS handwriting, shows 31 missions) and in his paperwork listing his medals/awards, it says he is credited with 31 missions.<br/> <br/> HOWEVER, on the PRINTED chart, it has him flying 48 MISSIONS! So, what gives with that? Now, if my Grandpa wrote 31 missions, why does teh chart have the other and here are the dates and hours:<br/> Mission we KNOW he flew:<br/> Feb22<br/> Mar 22<br/> march 23<br/> March 26<br/> March 27<br/> March 29<br/> April 9<br/> April 11<br/> April 13<br/> April 20<br/> April 26<br/> April 30<br/> May 1<br/> May 7<br/> May 8<br/> May 19<br/> May 20<br/> May 23<br/> May 27<br/> May 28<br/> June 4<br/> June 6<br/> June 11<br/> June 14<br/> June 24<br/> June 25<br/> july 4<br/> July 11<br/> Aug 18<br/> OK, so on his chart, he has ALL of those listed, with hours, but it ALSO has listed<br/> March 24, 3.30 hours<br/> April 10 1.30 hrs <br/> April 12, 3.50 hrs<br/> April 18 4.40 hrs<br/> April 21, 3.00 hrs<br/> April 22 6.50 hrs<br/> April 25 5.30 hrs<br/> April 27 4.00 hrs<br/> May 23 8.00 hrs<br/> May 24 3.30 hrs<br/> May 25 7.50 hrs<br/> june 5 1.30 hrs<br/> June 21 4.10 hrs<br/> June 22 4.50 hrs<br/> June 29 3.00 Hrs<br/> July 29 8.00 hrs <br/><br/><span style='color: #0000FF'>Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt  Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"</span><br/> 
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| '''MaryAlice''' <br/><br/><div class='poster-info'><img src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/NoAvatar.gif' /></div><br/>3/17/2011 9:51:02 AM 
| So, why teh other missions, but were not given credit? Plane trouble, turn around? Something like that???<br/> <br/> Also, I posted up some pictures last year sometime, and I have been able to positively ID one of them, his name was Mickey McCoviak (will find that picture, and update there as well)<br/> Mickey was the Ball Turret on the Mary Alice, and appears that Mickey and my Grandpa were pretty good friends. My Grandpa also has another GREAT picuture of Mickey, "adjusting" his Ball Turret. This is a GREAT picture, in GREAT condition...gonna have copied so I can post it here. Also, my Grandpa had a picture of Cahrles Wilson, a waist gunner on the Mary Alice.<br/> <br/> Also, he had "diary" and inside, he has names of his "pals" and buddies that he met in training. I will post those names as well<br/> <br/> I also have the hrs my grandpa did during training (appears to have been  @ 63 hrs ina B-17F<br/> Started his flight training in Nov 1943, and carried into Dec 19443..out of Rapid City South Dakota.<br/> <br/> After the War, it appears that last time he went up, was on March 21, 1945, ina B-17G,for 5 hrs, out of Kingman Arizona. grandpa was also stationed, or did training in Lubbock, TX (hey Donald!!!) Miami, Fl, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Arizona, and then in outisde Houston at Ellington Air Field. <br/><br/><span style='color: #0000FF'>Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt  Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"</span><br/> 
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| '''MaryAlice''' <br/><br/><div class='poster-info'><img src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/NoAvatar.gif' /></div><br/>3/17/2011 9:59:42 AM 
| And dont worry Donald, havent forgot about the book review  &#x1f603;<br/> <br/> <br/> I also have ALL of my Grandpas medals, have some patches as well, and it APPEARS, that he may have ripped a sleeve off a uniform? Or shirt? It's OD in color, and is made of a very tough material (will get pics of ALL of this stuff very soon).<br/> <br/> I would say, that there is @ 40-50 pages of material, dated form @ 1943-1945<br/> <br/> Also, when they had the grand opening of the Musuem in Duxford, on Aug 1, 1997, and they invited my Grandpa, he saved all of that info. the letterhead they sent him, along with the grandopening book, etc...he saved all of that as well. And of course, teh .50 BMG headspacing cartridge, which Ive had for quite some time now....just a whole lot of neat info, Im sure you guys wil enjoy. <br/> My grandma is just now starting to feel comfortable in letting people go through it, but since she knows what I am doing, Im very certain, she will let me take it to get copied.<br/> <br/> Also, as a side note, I have FINALLY been able o track down Mr. Dan Knight, and I wrote him a letter, and, his wife and grandson replied, and we have "spoke" via email. Mr. Dan KNight remembers my Grandpa very well, and he gave him very high praise.  More on that later as well. <br/><br/><span style='color: #0000FF'>Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt  Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"</span><br/> 
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| '''Paul Bellamy''' <br/><br/><div class='poster-info'><img src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/Paul Bellamy.jpg' /></div><br/>3/17/2011 11:06:56 AM 
| <blockquote><span class='author'>"MaryAlice":</span><br/><br/> OK, so on this chart, that was printed, it listed EVERY SINGLE time he went up...it gives a date, and it gives elapsed time in hours, and altitude at which they flew at.<br/> So, we KNOW that my Grandpa flew 31 missions (even the paperwork in HIS handwriting, shows 31 missions) and in his paperwork listing his medals/awards, it says he is credited with 31 missions.<br/> <br/> HOWEVER, on the PRINTED chart, it has him flying 48 MISSIONS! So, what gives with that? Now, if my Grandpa wrote 31 missions, why does teh chart have the other and here are the dates and hours:<br/> <br/> OK, so on his chart, he has ALL of those listed, with hours, but it ALSO has listed<br/> March 24, 3.30 hours<br/> April 10 1.30 hrs <br/> April 12, 3.50 hrs<br/> April 18 4.40 hrs<br/> April 21, 3.00 hrs<br/> April 22 6.50 hrs<br/> April 25 5.30 hrs<br/> April 27 4.00 hrs<br/> May 23 8.00 hrs<br/> May 24 3.30 hrs<br/> May 25 7.50 hrs<br/> june 5 1.30 hrs<br/> June 21 4.10 hrs<br/> June 22 4.50 hrs<br/> June 29 3.00 Hrs<br/> July 29 8.00 hrs</blockquote><br/> <br/> From the durations given it's likely many of these were non-combat flights, usually for training purposes. (Cross-country navigation, formation practice, fighter tactics, etc.)<br/> <br/> All the best,<br/> Paul <br/><br/>Paul Bellamy<br/> <img class='ForumMaxImgWidth' src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/resource1.png' /><br/> 
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| '''donaldbyers''' <br/><br/><div class='poster-info'><img src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/donaldbyers.jpg' /></div><br/>3/17/2011 12:54:04 PM 
| Yes I agree with Paul on this and not saying he needs conformation.<br/> <br/> Don <br/><br/>Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.<br/> 
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| '''Paul Bellamy''' <br/><br/><div class='poster-info'><img src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/Paul Bellamy.jpg' /></div><br/>3/17/2011 4:02:11 PM 
| Cheers Don.<br/> <br/> There's at least one entry in the list (18 April 44) that was flown as a spare aircraft, and returned (usually at the Channel) when not required to complete the mission.<br/> Will check the rest when I get the chance. <br/><br/>Paul Bellamy<br/> <img class='ForumMaxImgWidth' src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/resource1.png' /><br/> 
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| '''MaryAlice''' <br/><br/><div class='poster-info'><img src='/public/Attachments/ForumNew.MainPage/NoAvatar.gif' /></div><br/>3/18/2011 9:51:23 AM 
| So, even in time during teh War, they still flew non combat missions? Really? Wow, didnt know that!<br/> <br/> I guess, in hindsight, and looking back, it DOES make sense. Especially since back then, what they were doing, was all pretty new to everyone. So, yeah, ok...cool. <br/><br/><span style='color: #0000FF'>Derrick Morris, Grandson of S/Sgt  Engr/Top Turret William "Dale" Sartor, 615th BS 401st BG, "Mary Alice"</span><br/> 
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