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Jim Haire
7/11/2007 3:35:45 PM | I'm looking for a picture of my Dad's flight crew, and I know that the picture was taken and exists, because I've seen it -- but sad to say, the pic that my Dad had at one time has been destroyed. So, here's hoping somebody can help me.
My Dad's name was James B. Haire. He was an Engineer/Top Turret Gunner on a B-17 (42-97982) piloted by W. E. Johnson, 401st BG, 615 Squadron, based at Deenthorpe. They didn't have an extensive record of flight missions, only flying 3 missions in July of 1944; on the 8th over Mont Louis Ferme; on the 11th over Munich; and on the 16th over Munich again -- which they were shot down on. All of the flight crew were taken as POW's and spent the rest of the war as such.
Dad was held prisoner at Stalag Luft 4, which I'm sad to say, he probably never recovered from. He was a brooding, lonely person, who never shared his war experiences with us, and we largely didn't hear any of his 'war stories' until he retired and moved nearby to a brother-in-law who also was a bomber crew member in WW2. We always felt very privileged and honored to sit in on their war-story sessions. Sad to say, before Dad passed away due to leukemia in May of '98, my Mom said he had burned all his service pictures, papers, medals and ribbons one afternoon in the backyard when he still had enough strength to make it out there. I'm thankful that I know he's at peace now, and that I'll see him again someday.
So, without further ado, the other members of my Dad's flight crew were:
2nd Lt. W. E. Johnson -- Pilot
2nd Lt. K. R. Powell -- Co-Pilot
2nd Lt. R. E. Malloy -- Navigator
2nd Lt. J. J. Loverro -- Bombadier
T/Sgt. J. T. Murtha -- Radio Operator
Sgt. C. G. Core -- Ball Turret Gunner
Sgt. C. D. Nolen -- Tail Gunner
Sgt. L. Rappaport -- Waist Gunner
I've checked all the other flight crew pictures on this website, just in case Dad's crew pic had been placed by mistake somewhere, but no such luck. Like I said, the picture exists, so I'm hoping somebody else will step up to the plate and supply a copy for me. If anyone knows any of the crew above, or knows how to make contact with family members, please get in touch with me.
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Paul Bellamy
7/11/2007 5:58:21 PM | Hi Jim,
Just to make sure, you have gone through all the US National Archives photos on the site?
If not, you may recognise the photo you remember.
All the best,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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Jim Haire
7/12/2007 3:15:15 AM | Thanks, but no luck. Appreciate the help.
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Jim Haire
5/17/2008 6:50:43 PM | Well, thank You Lord for intervening in this matter of locating my Dad's flight crew picture! Kathy Summers, daughter of Co-Pilot Ken Powell, the sole surviving crew member of "Sweet Slumber", has contacted me about her dad having pictures and many memoirs concerning the crew, the plane, their short mission list, and their POW days. After talking to her, Mr. Powell called me, and we talked for almost an hour, sharing memories of what Dad had passed on to us, and some new things that Mr. Powell could remember. I really enjoyed talking to him. But, bottom line, he's sending me 2 copies of a new book published in January of this year titled, "Four Stars in the Window" authored by Tom Delveaux. It is the memoirs and writings of the 4 Powell brothers who served in WWII at the same time. He's also sending to me a copy of the their flight crew pic, and a montage photo of the flight crew all wearing their caps when they held a reunion in years past.
But all of these good things wouldn't have been possible if it hadn't been for this forum existing on the web. Thanks to the moderators of the 401st Bomb Group forum, my mom will have an autographed copy of the book, and I'll be able to make copies of the picture which I'd searched for for so long. Thanks, and God bless all on this forum.
(P.S. -- And I hope that Kathy and her dad will update the flight crew information that you have here, with the name of the bomber ("Sweet Slumber"), and with whatever pictures they might have of the crew.)
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donaldbyers
5/18/2008 3:01:27 PM | We do know how some things get fuzzy after a long time but Sweet Dreams may be the one you are refering to. Sweet Slumber is not one of the names listed. Sweet Dreams doesn't have a serial number assigned to it as it was an unknown.
Being a new crew also I doub't they flew the same plane for each of their 3 missions however, any thing is possible. Do you happen to know by his information each of the 3 missions what plane he flew.
Also thanks for the kind words and we are trying to make this forum as much as it can be!!!!!
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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donaldbyers
5/18/2008 3:18:19 PM | "Paul Bellamy":
Hi Jim,
Just to make sure, you have gone through all the US National Archives photos on the site?
If not, you may recognise the photo you remember.
All the best,
Paul
There is something wrong with that link Paul. Have tried to get it fixed. Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Jim Haire
5/28/2008 1:22:02 PM | Don, I got this email from Kathy Summers just this morning, which should give you an answer as to the name of the B-17 our dads flew on:
Hi, Jim,
...I just wanted to make sure you received the information you were looking for.
The pilot, Willie Johnson, chose the name "Sweet Slumber" because he liked the song. Nell, Willie's wife, was in touch with us several times during book production and was interviewed by the book's author, Tom Delvaux. Because they were married while Willie was serving in WWII, she's saved her husband's correspondence and service records.
The name was not registered because the plane wasn't active long enough for them to even get the name and nose art painted on the plane. But the forum participants can be assured the plane would have been officially "Sweet Slumber" if it hadn't been destroyed.
If anyone on the forum would like to hear from Dad, they can email me, and I'll give it to him, and he can dictate a response to me that I can type into an email. Dad doesn't have, and doesn't want, a computer. I'm not at my personal computer long enough on any given day to post to forums or blogs. However, I'll be happy to share anything with you as you need it. I wouldn't send you any information that wasn't true. Dad and my Uncle Delmar were firm with Mr. Delvaux throughout the book's production, (that) they didn't want anything embellished for the sake of drama; they wanted to make sure this book was an accurate representation of their personal experiences. The information in the book came from personal interviews. The chapters about Uncle David, the Marine, were written from David's memoirs he gave to me 12 years ago. David's oldest son, a Vietnam Veteran, reviewed those chapters with Delvaux. So those are accurate as well.
I need your address. Dad has some photos and papers to mail to you. Included in the package will be copies of these photos, your autographed copy of "Four Stars in the Window", and some other records that might be of interest. Dad found a small yellow paperback book one day titled "Behind Barbed Wire." It was a record of the occupants of Stalag 4. Dad's made a copy of the page that shows your dad's information, along with copies of the book cover and front pages.
Please send me your address. I'm doing "Four Stars" business this morning, and getting packages ready to mail. I look forward to hearing from you. I want to know what you think of the book after you've read it. You can call me at ***-***-****.
Sincerely,
Kathy Summers
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
So, Don, I hope that answers your question as to the planes' name. "Sweet Slumber" it was, or would've been.
Since it doesn't sould like Mr. Powell or his daughter have the time to submit the crew pics, when I get the pics, I'll be glad to submit them to this site's picture gallery. Hope they come soon!
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donaldbyers
5/29/2008 9:06:24 AM | That does make a lot of sense and this would not be the only aircraft that this has happened to in reguards to getting the name on the aircraft or not getting it registered. I was also looking on the internet for information on how to order this book "Four Stars in the Window" just found it in the Nashville Library.
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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win-win
5/30/2008 2:51:29 PM | Jim:
Have you tried e-mailing the National Archives' Still Picture Branch 'stillpix@nara.gov' (the source of the photo gallery on thie Web-site) with the same detailed Crew/Aircraft/Dates/Units info in your original Forum post?
You have wonderfully detailed information for them to 'search'...and you just never know. They'll definitely reply. Good hunting.
Win Bryson
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donaldbyers
5/31/2008 7:07:37 PM | Mailing such info will not get the answer he is looking for. The only request you can send to this address is a Nickname of the aircraft. They compile all their aircraft photos by nickname only. Thanks Tho.....
Don
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Paul Bellamy
6/1/2008 8:39:03 AM | Hi Jim,
I've gone through all the available NARA Still Photo captions specifically naming the 615th Bomb Squadron.
Only one un-named crew photo is close to July 1944, the others were taken in early 1944 or after your Dad's plane was lost.
65440AC
"Crew 5 of the 615th Bomb Squadron, 401st Bomb Group, beside a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress at an 8th Air Force base in England. 28th June 1944."
Now, the aircraft in the photo can't be 42-97982, because she didn't arrive at Deenethorpe until the 10th of July.
She wasn't delivered by your Dad's crew, as they flew their first recorded sortie two days earlier.
If you know when the crew arrived at Deenethorpe it might give a smaller timescale to search within, as the NARA captions are not always 100% accurate.
Best wishes,
Paul
Paul Bellamy
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Jim Haire
6/4/2008 2:31:32 PM | Nope, that's NOT the picture I'm looking for. I should be receiving a copy of the picture from the soul survivor of my dad's crew, Co-Pilot Ken Powell, shortly. When I do, I'll submit it to this website for inclusion in the gallery, and evidently it hasn't appeared in any archive is because it might have been taken when they were still in training stateside, and didn't have any plane name or nosecone art attributed to it, or them. But just because it hasn't been posted or included in any existing record of photos of other crews doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I very distinctly remember seeing the picture, so much so that I even remember the photo lab stamp on the back of the pic -- "FOX photo - Lincoln, Nebraska" -- the location of their training base. So, we'll soon find out, I hope.
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donaldbyers
6/4/2008 7:40:27 PM | Jim,
You are correct in your statement. It just depended on where the picture was taken. When the Squadron Historian or Group Historian has the picture taken it was normally sent back to HQ 8th AAF. Most of the ones taken at the airbase training bases in the states did so for public relations at home and copies given to the crew on individual taken. It would sure be great if we could find a reposiatory for these photos!!!!!
By the way just so you know when sending a copy to the 401st BG it has to be an original picture not a scan. They will return it. This is not my policy! Click the world Icon and go to my web site......
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Jim Haire
6/5/2008 7:58:43 PM | In other words, just because I've scanned & saved the copy of the original pic that I've waited for so long for, and because my dad's surviving crew member, Ken Powell, has the remaining original picture -- then ONLY HE can submit the pic for inclusion and honoring in the 401st BG gallery?! Ridiculous! This site stands ready to NOT include a pic of a crew that quite clearly could've paid the ultimate sacrifice, just for the sake of verification of the information? Again I say ridiculous! You'd rather have a gaping hole with no information at all, rather than have probably 1 of 2 available sources offering the information? ...when there are no other sources coming forward? Of what advantage would it be to me as a surviving son who wants to honor his dad and his crew, to NOT send whatever legitimate information that I have at my disposal? The policy sucks! I don't get it.
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win-win
6/6/2008 11:12:54 AM | Don & Jim:
How about if Jim makes and sends a photo-print from his scan file - say a 3x5 or 4x6 or whatever? That way, the Web-person can scan to their own 'spec' requirement, from an 'original photo'.
That's how it worked for our 613Sq 1st.Lt. A.J. Nelson Crew photo for posting - a print from the only print that exists we know of (and albeit unofficial, fuzzy and probably taken by one of the Nelson Crewmen during training at Rapid City).
And it 'gets it done' - given we know that not all 401BG Crews were photographed, identified and/or made it to archives, unfortunately.
Don - I'm also still hunting for that treasure-trove archive with 401BG Crew and individual photos, too - that's still 'out there somewhere'.
Win Bryson
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donaldbyers
6/6/2008 7:29:24 PM | "Jim Haire":
In other words, just because I've scanned & saved the copy of the original pic that I've waited for so long for, and because my dad's surviving crew member, Ken Powell, has the remaining original picture -- then ONLY HE can submit the pic for inclusion and honoring in the 401st BG gallery?! Ridiculous! This site stands ready to NOT include a pic of a crew that quite clearly could've paid the ultimate sacrifice, just for the sake of verification of the information? Again I say ridiculous! You'd rather have a gaping hole with no information at all, rather than have probably 1 of 2 available sources offering the information? ...when there are no other sources coming forward? Of what advantage would it be to me as a surviving son who wants to honor his dad and his crew, to NOT send whatever legitimate information that I have at my disposal? The policy sucks! I don't get it.
Jim,
As I said this was not my policy. This was the last info I got when another menber sent her photo to the 401st and that was what they requested. Am not sure I understand it also. Some of us know how to make it High Def...
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Jim Haire
6/6/2008 8:28:53 PM | OK, so now what do I do? I've got a copy of the original scanned and saved on my PC. Mr. Ken Powell, Co-pilot on the B-17 with my dad, has an original copy. I've requested him, by way of his daughter Kathy Summers since he is NOT computer friendly, if somehow they could get the picture added to the gallery to honor the crew members -- and that seems like the only thing to see to it, that they be honored rather than have an incomplete record or a gaping hole when no other info is forthcoming. So, not seeing it matters much whether it's an original or a scanned copy at this point in the game, I pray that the pic will be included somehow.
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donaldbyers
6/6/2008 11:53:48 PM | "Jim Haire":
OK, so now what do I do? I've got a copy of the original scanned and saved on my PC. Mr. Ken Powell, Co-pilot on the B-17 with my dad, has an original copy. I've requested him, by way of his daughter Kathy Summers since he is NOT computer friendly, if somehow they could get the picture added to the gallery to honor the crew members -- and that seems like the only thing to see to it, that they be honored rather than have an incomplete record or a gaping hole when no other info is forthcoming. So, not seeing it matters much whether it's an original or a scanned copy at this point in the game, I pray that the pic will be included somehow.
Jim,
What I suggest is for them/you to contact George Menzel at his address and go from there. I will gladly provide his address and phone number by private mail. You can e-mail at donald_byers@sbcglobal.net I would be more than happy to put it on my 401st BG web page if you attach it to the e-mail....
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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swinny
6/7/2008 2:39:50 AM | I really hope everything turns out OK, but if not , I also would be very happy to place the picture on my website.
I am honoring all the men who flew with the 401st.
http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/401st.htm
_________
 My adoption graves http://www.remember-our-heroes.nl/us_401stBG.htm
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donaldbyers
6/17/2008 9:24:35 AM | Jim,
Please contact me by my personal e-mail address so I can chat off the forum. Thanks Don
You can either contact me off my web site just click the world on the left to take you there or at
donald_byers@sbcglobal.net
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Jim Haire
3/7/2009 6:06:15 PM | After transmitting the crew picture that I have and the crew information on Feb. 25th to someone identified as "kele" affiliated with the 401stBG.com website, there still is no posting of the picture on the website. What gives? What "act of Congress" has to be performed in order to get the picture posted and the crew information updated? Thanks for any help that can be given.
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donaldbyers
3/8/2009 10:15:59 AM | I and others also wonder what gives, there is now a new site with the 401st BG. http://www.401bg.net/groups/workgroup/
They are switching to a WIKI site and are rebuilding everything. I myself am also rebuilding my own site which included the picture that you sent me.
Don Byers
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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Jim Haire
3/28/2009 3:30:14 AM | I again have submitted within the last few minutes the original emailing with Dad's crew pic attached to "kele" at the email address sent to me by him. Let's see what happens.
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donaldbyers
3/28/2009 5:54:50 AM | Thanks Jim, not sure if you have visited my site lately as I have started to put some content into it and it will be completly different than before. Some things are harder for me to do as I am still learning but I will promise you that my site will include the picture of your dad's crew!!! http://www.donald-byers.com
Sgt. Donald C. Byers, 613th Bomb Squadron, Togglier, 42-97344 Carrie B II, KIA 08/24/1944.
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